I'm being dense again.Can you clarify? 'Well spotted.. it should be..' Not sure which bit you mean. I've been a bit bammboozled with my reading s today.

Have spotted the marriage entry for J G W Dalrymple and a couple of other relevant entries. Currently humming and hawwing over whether to order the certificates or not in the hope they will offer clarification.

Will respond to the other queries a bit later.

I got a bit flumoxed as I couldn't get the date. I also think I found children born of that marriage- but also got fuddled by a 'William' who married an 'Eliza' and bore children. Don't know if they are relevant. Good Luck. Marmalade and Treacle. What a family. I still want to know what they were doing in 'The New World' and what happened to Sarah Thompson who is listed with the spelling of the name with a'P'- Scottish!!! If GSWD is the 2nd son of the Earl, He was Hon>GSWD and the girls were 'Misses' not ladies. Oh gosh its gets more complicated.

Something for you in the interim. I remember you mentioned an Indian connection but not sure if you meant Canadian Indian as part of your family were from Canada or someone from India. Anyway, made reference to an Indian connection I had found in an earlier post but was reluctant to put the few details that I had because I didn't have enough information to answer questions. I now have found what I was looking for and it might solve your query regarding the Indian connection and also the question regarding Lieutenant Colonel James Dalrymple being the right one. I believed it was when I posted the rough outline of your direct descendancy and I still do.

You will be aware of this because I have already mentioned it before:

Lt.-Col. James Dalrymple was the son of Sir William Dalrymple, 3rd Bt. and Anne Philp. He died in 1800, unmarried.

Now, this next bit might make that all a bit clearer:

Have removed the quote as it came from material with a copywrite. However, in essence the marriage with the Indian princess Mooti Begum and the children born to them were erased from family records on the British side. The sons were raised in Madras as Christians and sent back to East Lothian.

When I did the rough outline of your direct descendancy I believed that the Lieutenant Colonel James Dalrymple, son of Sir William, 3rd Bar. was the father of George Wemyss Dalrymple. I still do believe that.

As time permits I am still turning over the stones for information.

Wow, I'm still abit fuddled by it though. I had meant a Red Indian connection through the Winter line (Not sure if its one of those 'tales')but if this is part of us too- even more international as I said before.
Incidentally, I have found that John George W D having Married Amelia Ann Cook in 1916, he died in 1927 aged 65. She died in 1958 aged 88. Her parents are not recorded on her birth registration in 1869, although, there were 2 females by the name of Cook whose deaths were recorded in 1868- Eliza Hampden Cook with no record of Birth in the database that i can find and then Margaret Hannah Cook registered as born 1866. The latter may be Amelia's Mother- who knows. I'm not sure what comes next. Still want to know what The WDs are doing in NZ nack then. Did see but couldn't access it a 'Lord Dalrymple' as a passenger to New South Wales on the list for when it started etc- may be something or nothing.

'Lieutenant Colonel James Dalrymple, son of Sir William, 3rd Bar. was the father of George Wemyss Dalrymple.' Found Last Will and Testament for George Weymss-Dalrymple. He left his estate to' Eliza Thomson Hall or Dalrymple' having died at ?Kinnings (Its hard to make out) Cottage, Paisley 1848, Scotland.

Crikey.. you have been busy. Do you have a copy of the Will or do you want me to send it because I got it the other day and have only just typed it into text form.

Wow Shizara, you're on the ball. My Computer is a fossil model and everytime I tried to print off the Will it crunched, groaned ,froze etc and I still don't have it although I did save it hopefully to enlarge it somehow. I'd appreciate a copy if you have one spare. The Lieut.J D is still puzzling me and the Sarah T mystery is definetly bugging me. I think there's a wider field to scan through especially with Sarah. Thinking 'left outside the box' I note on the 1871 census a Sarah T is noted from Lancashire, Blackburn,Oswaltwistle to be residing at HMs Pleasure in Surrey. Just one idea or maybe she died on route to The New World

Well...

1. Can send you the text version of the Will so no problem there.

2. What are you finding puzzling about Lieutenant Colonel James Dalrymple? How he fits into the puzzle?

3. Sarah Thompson is a mystery, but have been putting more feelers out about her too. One avenue that might give answers is in the death certificate for George Samuel Wemyss Dalrymple. Other than passenger lists I have found no mention of her in articles about George.

Hello Shizara- I've just got back from work so apologies for not getting back sooner. Yes, a text version of the GWD Will would be helpful if you don't mind. It is how Lieut. JD fits in to the puzzle that gets me stomped abit. If he married Mooti Begum he must have been divorced here. (That's the slow part of me!!!) If his offsprings records were somehow 'commuted' then this may lead us to where/why etc. I wonder if there's any info from The masons like a pic of GSWD? He was one and who knows, this may be how he got AGnes etc married off? Otherwise it seems Sarah T has disappeared into the ether. The only other idea I had was that she became ill or was 'indisposed' and was an inpatient at a hospital.
I have found the announcement of the marriage between JH Hankins and AS Weymss-Dalrymple. It is spelt as such. It was on 26/10/1872 at All Saints Hokitika. (not Palmerston North as My Mum had said)It says she is 'eldest daughter of GSWD' - no mention of Sarah T which is significant. Hence they didn't wish to mention her mother who would usually be mentioned her as 'The Late' or otherwise unless there was something they didn't want to draw attention to. As they arrived in Hokitika in 1871 again I have found them on the passenger list but no Sarah T or JHWD (son) Any ideas?

Ok.. will try and give you a run down of how I see things regarding Lieutenant Colonel James Dalrymple and how he fits in. As I go will give you some urls to go to so that you can verify the sources of the information and try to explain, rather than confuse along the way. I will start with Sir William Dalrmple, 3rd Bar...

First, go to thePeerage.com - Person Page 3463 and scroll down to:

Sir William Dalrymple, 3rd Bt. was born on 23 September 1704. He married Agnes Crawford, daughter of William Crawford, in 1726.

You will note that Sir William Dalrymple had 2 children with Agnes Crawford. Now, it would seem that he had a second family of 4 children with Ann Philp. The first child, Lt.-Col. James Dalrymple, you will note, died 1800. Now, if you click on his name you will see that he was unmarried when he died in 1800. At this point you might think.. "Well, that's it then. He wasn't married and had no children." Now, go to this url:

Seringapatam 1799: Biographies - Hyderabad Army

This supports the 1880 year for the death of Lt.-Col. James Dalrymple.

The next url is equally important. I suggest you read the whole account:

Voices on the Verandah: Anthology of ... - Google Book Search

To support the idea that George Wemyss Dalrymple is the son of Lieutenant Colonel James Dalrymple there are the following extracts which can be found by searching Google Books:

1. ALLEN'S INDIAN MAIL AND REGISTER OF INTELLGENCE FOR BRITISH AND FOREIGN INDIA, CHINA AND ALL PARTS OF THE EAST.

VOL. V1.

JANUARY - DECEMBER, 1848

Jan 1, Mr George Wemyss Dalrymple, son of the late Lieut. Col. James Dalrymple of the Madras Army; at Kinning-cottage, Glasgow. (Note, this is when George Wemyss Dalrymple died)

2. Report for the Year Ended ...? - Page 79
by India Office Library and Records - History - 1972
With an explanatory note on the letter by George Samuel Wemyss Dalrymple,
grandson of Lieutenant-Colonel Dalrymple, and a typewritten transcript. ...

3. The Gentleman's magazine - Page 334
by John Nichols - History - 1848
**At Glasgow, Mr. George-Wemyss Dal- rymple, son of the late Lieut -Col. James
Dalrymple, of the Madras Army, and grandson of the late Sir William Dalrymple,** (Note, ignore the extra hyphens)

Moving back to 1828, there is a birth in L'Orient, France:

Birth registered with the French civil authorities:

L'Orient, France

On the 18th December 1828 at 11am, George Wemyss Dalrymple, propriétaire, aged 28, presented a male infant, son of himself and Eliza Thompson Hall, his wife, married at (Guernsey?), (7th August 1826?), the child named George Samuel Wemyss.

So, at this point that leaves me to conclude that:

Sir William Dalrymple, 3rd Bart. of Cousland is the father of..
|
Lieutenant Colonel James Dalrymple. The dates and the circumstances match up. That he is the father of..
|
George Samuel Wemyss Dalrymple who is the father of..
|
1. Agnes Sophia Wemyss Dalrymple.
2. Emily Eliza Dalrymple.
3. John George Wemyss Dalrymple.

When you have read the urls you will probably pick up things such as the marriage to Mooti Begum being erased away. I daresay the marriage may well have been a no-no. As for divorce, I think we may well struggle to find a record of that.

There is a picture of him here:

George Samuel Wemyss Dalrymple | NZETC

If you go to:

Professional, Commercial, And Industrial | NZETC

There is more information there.

Shizara, Al I can say now is 'Wow'! I need t look at all of this. I am still perturbed by the AWAL of Sarah T. If The 'Establishment' have 'rubbed out' Mooti Begum's offspring, they can do anything! ( In those days;they did)I also see from paper achives that GSWD had lots of property that at some point he was forced to sell off. This included not only NZ property but a property in London. What a boy!!!

I don't think I would focus too much on that angle as an explanation for not being able to find Sarah. There could be any number of reasons. She may have gone to Australia / Scotland / England or even back to Ireland. She may have divorced, she may have remarried. Am still looking for her.

Shizara, 'This supports the 1880 year for the death of Lt.-Col. James Dalrymple.' The literature says he died in 1800, do you mean 1880 or 1800? I think you meant 1800. It does fit. My sceptiscism is unwarranted. It really does seem to be that GSWD is the Grandson of the 3rd Bart. of Cousland. So he was a 'Sir' himself if Lieut Col.James Dalrymple is the eldest son of The Baronet William Dalrymple. If he was a 2nd son or 3rd even, I believe that makes him The Honourable GSWD. The oil painting Mummy has gone on about that has gone AWAL must be the one of The Lieut. Col in scarlet jacket.
This makes it even more peculiar that GSWD should end up in NZ with his children. Incidentally, there's a younger photo of him reference- Otago Witness Issue 2300 of 31/03/1898 Page 15.
Oh goodness me, so Agnes was either lady Agnes or The Hon. Miss etc? I also found a reference to his respect and interest in Horsemanship which again is a lasting memory of my Mother's of her Grandmother: Agnes. (Taranaki Herald VoL 155/2015 dated 10/07/1902 page 2) Agnes had racehorses and they all used to be chauffeur driven off to the races to watch them run.
So that makes the 3rd Baronet my Great great great Grandfather? Hmmm

Shizara, This is a lot to take in- phew...breath!!!. I have looked at The Peerage.com pages and am more worried by the fact when you click on the link for Lieut.Col. James Dalrymple it 'corrects' to The Lieut. Gen. Samuel who was his younger brother, I think. More to think about....

okay,so I'm slow - it's called digesting! Lieut.Col James Dalrymple was the elder son, that means GWD was his elder son, so he was Lord or Sir George WD; that means GSWD should have been Lord-Sir etc which makes Agnes Sophia- Lady. Except the title seems to have gone to Lieut.Gen - 2nd son William Dalrymple- Anne Philip is a problem!!!!Having problems here. His Lordship and meself are trying to get the ends tied up except they seem to have been mixed up deliberately long agoc!!! Slow peeps down south!!!

I'm still digesting all of this. I've found something that makes me wonder more. Does anyone think its significant- look at the date.
Monumental inscriptions in Inveresk Kirkyard
extant in 1857
15. JAMES DALRYMPLE, Esq., late Lieutenant-Colonel of the First Battalion of the Royals, died 21st Nov. 1791.
Rest yet awhile within thy narrow room,
Ye high prized relics of the best of men,
Till at the trumpet's sound thy faithful tomb
Shall render up its trust to earth again ;
Then shall exulting choirs of angels cry,
Happy the man whose talent is improved,
Come, heir of glory, to your master's joy-
Come, taste the applauses of the God you love.
The Hon. ELlZ. ST CLAIR, relict of Lieut.-Col. James Dalrymple, died Nov. 13th, 1811.
Your Scottish ancestors traced: Monumental inscriptions in Inveresk Kirkyard

This bit below is an extract from Burk's Peerage- they are saying, they claim to be but can't prove it!!!
22. Family Name: STAIR
Incumbent: THE 14TH EARL OF STAIR
Lineage: The present DALRYMPLEs claim but cannot prove descent via the DALRYMPLEs OF... ...