Think you will find Ann Philip is likely the mother of Lieut.Col.James Dalrymple, not his wife.

Children of Sir William Dalrymple, 3rd Bt. and Anne Philp

* Lt.-Col. James Dalrymple+ d. 1800
* Jane Dalrymple d. 1826

From the IGI - showing where Ann Philip fits in:

Wemyss Dalrymple, Christened 27 October 1767, daughter of William Dalrymple and Anne Philip.

Information on Philp, Anne

Philp, Anne married to Dalrymple, William, Bt. 3rd

Child 1: Dalrymple, James, Lt.Col.
Child 2: Dalrymple, Samuel, Lt.Col., b. 1760
Child 3: Dalrymple, Jane
Child 4: Dalrymple, Wemyss

Hello Shizara, sorry i've been a bit side tracked with work for last few days. That does make sense but still if he married Mooti Begum, how have we established that? I don't quite know where to go from here. (Still waiting for a response from legal beagles- They probabley think I've gone raving mad. They're not far wrong though !!!:eek

I know the feeling with being a bit sidetracked at work.

With regard to Mooti Begum I think that the one best able to help us with that is the author William Dalrymple as his book covers the subject of the marriage, though, not having read it yet, I don't know to what extent. I suspect too that the author is also related to you as well.

James Achilles Kirkpatrick, the British resident (in effect, ambassador) at the court of Hyderabad caused a bit of a scandal in Autumn 1801 by his behaviour - according to Guardian | White mischief

William Dalrymple - the author, refers to the daughter of Lieut.Col. James Dalrymple and his wife Mooti Begum as Noor Jah Begum his long lost cousin. That would suggest that somewhere along the line his family connections connect with yours.

I know the feeling with being a bit sidetracked at work.

With regard to Mooti Begum I think that the one best able to help us with that is the author William Dalrymple as his book covers the subject of the marriage, though, not having read it yet, I don't know to what extent. I suspect too that the author is also related to you as well.

James Achilles Kirkpatrick, the British resident (in effect, ambassador) at the court of Hyderabad caused a bit of a scandal in Autumn 1801 by his behaviour - according to Guardian | White mischief

William Dalrymple - the author, refers to the daughter of Lieut.Col. James Dalrymple and his wife Mooti Begum as Noor Jah Begum his long lost cousin. That would suggest that somewhere along the line his family connections connect with yours.

Oh goodness, Shizara, do you really think WD is related to me? I think a letter or email to his editor or publisher would be a good idea. He may be aware of our postings and is as equally dumbfounded as I am/You are !!! I'll have a look at any publishing info there is tomorrow. Still would like to know Mooti Begum's marriage cert info though. ANy news on Sarah Thompson? I saw something that suggests she died but no ref or details, so that may have been another Sarah.

If Noor Jar Begum is his long lost cousin and she is a daughter of Lieut. Col. James Dalrymple, then unless he is using the term long lost cousin in the loosest sense then somewhere along the lines your families must connect.

I did try to make email contact with him but not had a response and I guess that could be for any number of reasons.

Sarah Dalrymple nee Thomson still continues to be elusive.

Hi, I'm back again- bit overtaken by son's needs-finding workplacements, apprenticeships,DJ suits for Summerball etc- all very diverse.
Well, it seems we have a bit of a 'brick wall' situation. From what I can tell, the legal beagles think I'm off my trolley, The peeps at C&Co are saying the GWD I know isn't the one they know.(I think he is) We need to know-:1) Lieut.Col. James' DOB( the evidence is it was 1757), 2)who he married with the proof, and 3) who his children were with proof. We have part way documented reference to him in his son's Will.(GWD)His own Will names another daughter other than Noorjah.(McBean) There are gaps and very obviously, it feels as if they were designed. What next, Dr Watson? Sherlock has need of more ideas!

Hello, I've been thinking outside the box. GWD and his wife Eliza Thompson-Hall seemed to be settled in France. In 1826 they had GSWD. It just makes me wonder why the Grandson of an Earl and his family would settle in France at a time when the Storming of the Bastille and its sympathies and subsequent celebrations would be so active?(14/07/1790) The reasons for it would have still been so very raw.Royal heads rolled off the guillotine block.
I am niaive- obviously something to do with why Lieut.Col. James and his children were not recognised - any ideas/help?

A good question. I daresay it will either be cloaked in mystery or we haven't stumbled across the answer yet, which, very likely, could be staring us in the face.

Without saying it in exact words I suspect the reason for the non recognition of the marriage and children could possibly be because in marrying they, along with others, have brought two very different cultures together. However, having said that, there must have been some recognition for the book articles to name the relationships, the announcement of the birth of George Samuel Wemyss Dalrymple and that record for the the estate of George Samuel Dalrymple after his death in Paisley, Renfrewshire where he is referred to as the grandson of William Dalrymple 3rd Bart.

Hello Shizara, I'm really stumped. Either we need to look outside the box again or there are other archives we haven't found yet. I see that the Scotlands People website have listed more records that they've been putting onto microfische so maybe there's still loads of stuff to find. I thinkThe Honorable East India company must hold the key in thier vaults. I think further enquirey there may help. GWD does refer to 'my dear son-in-law' about the death on 11th October1832 of ?midshipman William Dawson killed onboard M.F.M.Frigate The Donna Maria'. Maybe the RN archives will yield something. This is what makes me think he had other children; in this case a daughter older than GSWD.
Dalrymple, James IOR/L/MIL/9/255/98v, 110 [n.d.] I wonder if there's anything in this at The British Library- India etc office? I'll have a look.

This morning I emailed the library in Renfrewshire. I phone first and sent enough information to get the ball rolling so to speak. Have found that these sort of queries can yield some results, so here's hoping. - Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Hello, I emailed WD- author. I thought if I contacted him myself it may yield some response if only- go away etc ... Anyway, I hope the Renfrewshire Library come back to you. I was thinking of contacting the British Library but on 2nd thoughts had a spark of an idea that The Bodleian Library at Oxford University may be more helpful, they have the book GWD wrote. I'll let you know.

Superb.. I much prefer to get a message back saying "go away" than no response. You are right, contacting him directly yourself might be the way to go.

Will let you know as soon as I have a response from the library in Renfrewshire.

Hello Shizara, I've got a reply from The Bodeleian- they have the manuscript. They gave me info on links I can use to see if he wrote any more- I'll let all know.

Well done Gladys!

Remember, never give up and leave no stone unturned. It may well take a while but the information is out there.