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Gladys
Pillar of the Community
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:58 pm Posts: 2371
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I'm a little puzzled- GWD's Will says what it says so then the evidence of what we now know re: General Samuel is unaccounted for. I'm thinking there's more to this than is known.  Any ideas? I have a few but not quite sure how to take them forward. I think a look at France may be helpful too.
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| Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:36 am |
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Gladys
Pillar of the Community
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:58 pm Posts: 2371
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' Well, I still wonder if I deciphered the 'legal speak' correctly for the wrangle over the decision for the dipersement of Christian and Hugh's wealth? I know now Sir Francis Bond Head, Baronet and his brother Sir George Head were Mary Amelia's brothers. Mary Amelia's Will may be where it all went wrong. It beigins by stating 'Last Will and Testament... formerly of York Place ,Portman Square in the county of ... .... wife of the late General Samuel Dalrymple...' This is the first and last mention of any Dalrymples. It goes on then to say' In Compliance with the wish of my late sister....' I can barely make out the first name which could be Laura and then Anne Head she leaves the sum of £2036 to a woman called some one Williamson, wife of some one Williamson Esq. She made Sir Francis Bond Head her sole executor and seems to have given everything to him with odds and ends to Sir George her other brother and a few others. It would seem GWD got nothing and General Samuel's wish to provide for him was ignored. This is what I think happened. I'll have to do a bit more reading though. It again is very hard to read in places.Intriguing as we now have what I found to be a Jewish mix in the picture with The Heads; Roper Head . I am needing guidance again. I thought if a Will was made with specific bequests within it, they had to be honoured. As General Samuel didn't have issue or did he- maybe with his fiirst wife? if he didn't make provision by way of a prenuptial agreement like Christian and Hugh, his wife gets the deal but still his wishes have to be honoured don't they? Any one got any pointers here?
Momento-mori has just been back in touch. He's been more successful yesterday and seems to have located Eliza- GWD is there too but a few more things need clarifying. Matching the records to the headstones is proving a feat in itself. The weather hasn't been very helpful either.'
There really are some incongruous features to this whole thing. GWD's birth and childhood 'hidden' under an alias, his burial record showing very huge differences in dates against those of his Will. He buying 2 lairs, both separate to each other for himself and his wife. She's buried under a completely different surname, his Will being quite bland in relation to his background with no mention of any of the family wealth etc. He buried as 'clerk' and yet how many of those do you know who have an account with the Royal Bankers? The Stairs verses the Heads etc. I feel some what perplexed again. Mud and more mud...
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| Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:20 pm |
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Gladys
Pillar of the Community
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:58 pm Posts: 2371
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The momento-mori researcher has just let me know he's definitley located GWD and Eliza. Its a grave he's passed by several times. He managed to check an old not previously used burial ledger and it clarified the mix up with names/dates and locations etc. Confusingly though, GWD is listed as the owner of the lair but there are 2 other's in it with them. At least Husband and Wife are resting together not as previously indicated separately.  I now have to say 'Hooray'
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| Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:58 pm |
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Gladys
Pillar of the Community
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:58 pm Posts: 2371
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The other two occupants seem to be 'Ramsay' or 'Ramsey'. Not quite sure as MM told me - you can't see it from the pictures. I think they were in that Ledger. I have tried to look for an Isabella Dawson marrying a Ramsay/Ramsey. Haven't done very well yet but that's my hunch that maybe Eliza's daughter Isabella remarried.
You can clearly make out 'WeymssDalrymple' as all one word though. After 160 years it is remarkable that the stone is still standing as it was set and hasn't been vandalised either. 
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| Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:59 am |
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Gladys
Pillar of the Community
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:58 pm Posts: 2371
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Thinking through the Gen Samuel Dalrymple bequest and the Christian/Hugh prenup with their Lordships discussions over which law to apply for their decision on apportioning assets for Uncle Samuel, I am beginning to get the gist of his guise to avoid the grabbings of his wife's family.  What he didn't expect as no-one would was that Hugh also died in England and this is the very thing that may have 'saved' the day. I also believe that the Oil painting my Mother has religeously kept mentioning must gave been one of Samuel as she has always referred toThe General. From Granny Agnes' tender repatriation of a blood stained flag I also glean she may have been aware of his attempts at raising her own profile not that she'd known him but still I think you can see. He must have championed GWD's cause and inturn, GSWD and then her and her siblings. For illigitamacey was common place, to have been 'cared for' at that level I am sure was not commonplace. GWD could easily have been left to be forgotten in Madras. Why wasn't he? My hunch is because whilst a Muslim marriage wasn't recognised and any issue subsequently was not recognised, the family knew GWD actually was the only male heir to the line in the clearcut sense. I have not found issue from William 3rd Bart's 2 sons by his first wife Agnes but I stand to be corrected. The lineage changed direction and it is here I get confused. I read somewhere that One Earl around this time had had a patent decided that he could choose which direction to send the lineage if at some point issue was not available. I'm sure this was applied at this time.Correct me by all means but I believe this is what happened. This hunch drives me to pose the idea that GWD was the rightful future heir to the seat of The Earl of Stair taking illigitamcey,Anglo-Indian and Muslim blood issues aside. Had Lieut.Col. James married conventionally in The Church of England/Scotland, this may have seen a different conclusion for GWD and his offspring.  The link below supports what I find. The peerage of the British empire as ... - Google Books
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| Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:17 pm |
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Gladys
Pillar of the Community
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:58 pm Posts: 2371
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Ooo er, Things are 'hotting' up on the 'other' chanel  PMs from peeps re WD (author) - he's a cousin of that I'm sure and as he's on Wicki- he's in the public domain. I asked re: his sources that's all. 
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| Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:10 pm |
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Gladys
Pillar of the Community
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:58 pm Posts: 2371
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Well, it seems to have escalated to a 'discontent cordial' OO er. Rule Britania etc... 
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| Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:03 pm |
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Gladys
Pillar of the Community
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:58 pm Posts: 2371
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I've been thinking about this flag; the one Granny Agnes gave The Prince Regent on his visit to NZ. It is reputed to have been bloodstained and was used to wrap the body of ?General Samuel,??Lieut.Col. James for repatriation, I just don't know. She wanted it returned to his regiment. Anyway, we know General Samuel died of Cholera in L'Orient what we don't know is what Lieut.Col.James died of. It's likely the same or similar. Whose body did this flag wrap? It is hanging in a church/Kirk/Cathedral some where in Scotland with a plaque saying it was donated by Mrs Agnes Hankins. I don't know which church etc where or if there is further information hanging with it. Any ideas? 
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| Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:29 pm |
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Shizara
Pillar of the Community
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:45 pm Posts: 2329 Location: Nuneaton
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I know where it is :-P
_________________Cool 
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| Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:06 am |
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Shizara
Pillar of the Community
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:45 pm Posts: 2329 Location: Nuneaton
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Do I get a gold star for finding it? 
_________________Cool 
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| Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:09 am |
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Shizara
Pillar of the Community
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:45 pm Posts: 2329 Location: Nuneaton
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I have found more...
_________________Cool 
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| Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:08 am |
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Gladys
Pillar of the Community
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:58 pm Posts: 2371
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You're just a clever bean- time to share it 
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| Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:35 am |
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Gladys
Pillar of the Community
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:58 pm Posts: 2371
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Even better now-Lieut. Col. James has been found 
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| Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:28 pm |
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Gladys
Pillar of the Community
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:58 pm Posts: 2371
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Well he sort of has- the cemetery has but no confirmation where he lies in it as yet. The Scottish jurist: containing ... - Google BooksI've been looking at this. It seems the Interlocutor decided to reject the Earl of Stairs claim and went with Sir Francis Bond Head's claim or am I wrong? Its jolly hard to get your head around. Anyway, I do wonder if that was what happened? Where did GWD's bequest go from his Uncle Samuel when Mary Amelia went in 1854? More intrigue  NAS GD 135/1749 dated 1842-1843 may be worth having a look at.
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| Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:59 pm |
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Gladys
Pillar of the Community
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:58 pm Posts: 2371
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There may be some very helpful info coming soon from India- I have been given the contact info for some one who has some very good contacts and research skills. I had a reply within the hour and an offer of help.  I've had an additional 'spark' thought and have asked the Office of The Lord Lyon, if they would consult The Lyon Register to see why the lineage went from William to his brother John. I also pointed out Burke's Peerage has a footnote about the lineage that the present Earl 'cannot prove his lineage through the Dalrymples' (I didn't put it quite so bluntly of course but that is what Burke's Peerage says)
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| Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:28 pm |
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Gladys
Pillar of the Community
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:58 pm Posts: 2371
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Hey ho, no go with further Pm stuff.  The MI5 lot are logged on. Oh Dear ......
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| Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:56 pm |
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